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Brockwood Park 1985

Brockwood Park 3rd Conversation with Four Students 18th June 1985

K: Last time we met I think we were talking about, as he pointed out, what is our relationship to what is happening in the world - right sir? You know what is happening in the world - terror, terrorism, and those who are terrorized; the purpose of terrorism is to terrorize. And they are hijacking, killing people, innocent people, or any type - it doesn't matter. And there is a war going on in Beirut and there is Bangladesh, you know all about it. And you know what is happening in South America, the Falkland war? And there are people celebrating the Falkland war here and moaning in Argentina - right? And also there is this Star Wars - you have heard about it? Tremendous scheme. So that - I won't go into the details of it - so that the atom bomb and the neutron bomb will be obsolete. Right? Seeing all this, not only intellectually but actually, as a fact, what is your relationship to all that? To national divisions, to economic, to racial, to all that has happened in Brussels and so on, what is your attitude to all this, how do you react to all this?

A: Sir, when one reads about all this in the newspapers, or hears about it, or sees it, one seems to get stuck with the question of how does one respond?

K: I am asking you. How do you respond to all this? What is your reaction, what is your feeling, what is your instinctive or immediate response to it?

D: I think my response, at least sometimes, is thinking I want to keep out of it as much as I can, you know, try to keep away.

K: All right, if you try to keep out of it, can you?

D: I don't know.

A: Do you mean not contribute to the mess?

D: Well I mean I try to make no difference between where people come from.

K: That is fairly simple.

D: Yes. But from there I don't know what else to do.

K: It is recognized and it is fairly easy to do that. But at a deeper level, if there is such a deeper level, what do you feel about all this? The wars, the antagonisms, the economic divisions, super powers and the terrible things that are happening - hi-jacking, people who have nothing to do with anything being bombed, killed in Israel the bombs are thrown on buses, children, women - you follow? How do you...

A: I often think, what is it that makes man do all that?

K: No. You are the man, and also you are the woman.

A: Yes, it is part of me too.

K: What is your relationship to it? You are not answering my question.

B: Well sir I get the sense that there is something not quite right about it and you know I ask myself...

K: What do you mean 'not quite right about it'?

B: Sir I mean not right, this killing, this bombing, the war going on.

K: Yes, proceed, tell me.

B: I don't feel it is right and yet I am not sure if there is something I can do about it because nobody seems to be able to stop it.

K: Do you want to stop it? Do you want to indulge in violence?

B: No, sir.

K: Right? Then you are not a violent human being. Or are you limiting violence to terrorism, killing, limit it there, limit it so that it is something - right? But violence is much deeper than merely, not that it is right to kill another human being, but do you feel violent? If we are really honest.

A: Sir this is where I see your contradiction because I...

K: Contradiction between what?

A: At one level I do not want this violence to continue but in my own life I or any individual seems to continue with this.

K: So do you take the responsibility, you as a human being living on this earth, do you take the responsibility and say, "I won't be violent"? Or do you indulge sometimes in violence, sometimes not - you follow what I am talking about? Which is it?

C: It seems to be the only thing we can do.

K: Will you do it? Not "it seems the only thing we can do", but will you do it? Will you say, "I won't be violent" and go into the question of what is violence, how to be free of it and so on, will you undertake that journey? Or just say, "I don't want a part of all this, I want to keep out". But how can you keep out? When you go back to Argentina, you are going to take an aeroplane and you are going to pay so much and that goes part of it to armaments, part of it and all the rest of it. You can't keep out.

A: But then I get stuck with the question of how do I not keep out?

K: No, first, I will tell you. I am asking not how to keep out, that is a wrong question, you can't keep out.

A: But I am saying that is the immediate reaction that one has. How do I not do this.

D: Well you can't not do it.

K: No, I am asking you, will you take the responsibility, seriously, passionately, and say, let's go into the question of violence and I will see I will not be violent, and therefore you will not elect a violent leader - right? A politician, that is what has happened the world over. Therefore I am asking you as human beings, will you stop your own violence?

And what is violence? Come a little bit, begin to discuss with me. What do you consider is violence?

B: When you hurt another person.

K: Begin at the lowest level or the highest level. Begin somewhere. You hit me. You rob me. You murder me. You do all kinds of things to me - right? That is only a part of violence, isn't it? Investigate, go into it, go on, explore together, don't keep silent.

A: When I feel angry with you.

K: That's right, when you feel angry. Go on.

A: When I feel hurt.

K: Yes. Not only when you don't want to be hurt, but also when you want to hurt others. Don't say...

A: Yes, that is included.

K: So go on.

C: When you want to protect yourself.

K: Partly.

C: If countries are at war.

D: And jealousness seems to be violence.

B: And competition.

K: You go on talking, tell me - don't ask me. What do you think is violence? And will you undertake the responsibility to see that you, as a human being on this earth, will not be violent? What does it mean? And also what does it mean to be non-violent? Right? You understand? That's what they are talking about: Tolstoy and Gandhi, and India has been preaching non-violence.

A: But that seems to be non-violence in one particular sphere.

K: Go into it. Don't say, 'that seems'. Go into it, find out if you are violent. And then enquire what is violence. You said, anger, so you will not be angry.

D: But Krishnaji, can you say that? I mean it seems even a violent statement because you are trying to contradict something that is there, you know.

K: Find out. I understand that old boy. But I am asking you, will you undertake not to be violent? Therefore enquire what is violence.

A: Sir I find myself reluctant to say that I will not be violent.

K: That is not the point. You just now said, careful, careful, that you living on this earth as a human being, see all this, terrible violence, since human beings lived on this earth, and it is getting worse and worse and worse, more dangerous - right? I asked you what is your reaction, what is your responsibility to that. He said, "I would withdraw". You see, you can't withdraw - right? When you take an aeroplane, or buy a stamp, or anything, food, you are helping the whole system of violence to continue - right? Clear? If that is clear then what is your part in this? Then you must ask: what is violence? Right? Before you say I can, I cannot - right? Now what do you consider violence?

C: Often we are violent when we have a quick reaction that we don't control. We react immediately and we don't see it.

K: Begin simply. Begin at the physical level. The reaction is also part physical - right? Begin. There is a physical violence, isn't there? Hitting somebody, throwing a bomb at somebody, throwing another under the train, or throwing a bomb at forty thousand feet over a town - right? Those are all physical actions - right? Do you want to contribute to that, or you say no, I don't want to do that. I don't want to kill another human being for whatever reason. At present I don't want to kill. I have thought a great deal about it, and I have gone into it, physically I won't kill. I don't know what I will do later, I mean next year, but so far I am very clear. Would you say that?

B: I think we can say that.

K: No, not can, will you do it?

B: Yes, sir, but when it comes to something about anger, it seems it is quite a different matter.

K: Face the different matter. It is no good talking about not being violent - right? Talking about, theorizing, discussing, like they are doing now. Will you as a human being physically not hurt another?

C: Are you saying that each moment we should watch it?

K: I am asking you this. Don't translate it into something else.

A: Yes, sir, I can say that for now.

K: You will not hurt another, physically.

D: Even if you are attacked?

K: Wait, wait. That is a supposition.

D: Yes, I know.

K: If I have been all my life non-violent, I don't know what I will do. If I am attacked I don't know what I am going to do. But my brain has been thinking about this, living it and perhaps it will act like that way, or it may not - right? So leave the future alone. That's a trick to escape from this fact - right?

So physical violence. Are you psychologically violent?

A: When I compete with fifty other students in an examination...

K: Don't begin, be careful. Step by step. Don't jump to something.

A: I am not jumping sir, I am saying when I took an examination in Rishi Valley, I was competing with thousands of other students.

K: So do you say psychological competition is part of violence?

A: Yes, sir.

B: Yes.

D: Yes.

K: She is uncertain. Competition, not examination, but any form of competition. So will you not compete? I am better than him.

C: Does that mean not taking exams?

K: Just a minute, we will come to it. First get the principle of it, the feeling of it. Not to compete - right? Because that is part of violence - right? Would you agree to that? You have said that. So will you eliminate, or look at it and see the nature of competition, the wholeness of it, the entirety of competition?

A: All right, let's begin.

D: Let's look at it now.

K: Begin. Go on. Go on. Competition, from childhood, your mother says you are better than your brother, more beautiful, you have got much better outlook and so on. So will you stop comparing? Comparing is a form of competition, not between two materials, between this cloth and that cloth, between this woolen trouser and your corduroy trousers and so on. Deeper. It is a much deeper problem. Can you live your life without any comparison? Except you compare with two cars, etc. Right?

A: What does it mean to live without comparison?

K: Find out. Don't ask me. That's theoretical.

A: I am just asking the question.

K: Begin.

A: But it seems that's where I get stuck.

K: Don't get stuck. Move.

A: I keep thinking what if I gave up comparison, what if I stopped competing, what if - all that.

K: That means, if I do this I will get that.

D: I just get stuck with the question before: how do I get rid of competition, how do I not compare?

K: Careful, careful! The moment you say if I do this, will I get that? Then you are functioning between reward and punishment.

D: That is the way we have functioned for many years.

K: Therefore pursue it further. Therefore would you say: understand the depth of comparison, you know, the full movement of comparison, and say, sorry I understand it, therefore I won't do it - right? You know very well fire burns therefore you won't touch fire.

A: But we don't see it in the same light.

K: That's the whole point.

D: I don't understand it, I don't understand the whole problem of it.

K: So look at it carefully, don't come to any conclusion. Go on! You have never thought about this, that's the difficulty, or looked at it. Right, let's begin.

We agreed all of you, I think, that comparison is a form of violence. But you have to compare - right? Between two pieces of cloth, between two poems, between two carpets - right? And so on. Better washing machine than the old one. You have to compare. But psychologically will you go on?

A: What does it mean to psychologically compare?

K: It means I am better than you.

A: When I make a judgement about somebody.

K: No, no. I am not talking about judgement. You see how you function?

A: No, I am asking sir.

K: I know. I am asking you a question and then you counter that by another question.

A: No, I am not asking you to answer this question.

K: Don't ask before you have answered my question. Right? I am not being rude. So will you enquire, look, into the whole nature of comparison by beginning psychologically why do you compare? Why do you compare yourself with her, or with him, or with the whole school, or with your brother, why?

C: We have been taught to compare.

K: So you are being educated to compare?

C: Yes.

K: So your reactions, go on, further into it, are mechanical. Right? Like a computer that has been programmed - right? You know how. A little of it, like me, a little of it. You repeat.

C: Well the comparison comes just by itself.

K: Of course. You repeat. Right? Do you see how your brain becomes mechanical, has become mechanical?

A: Repeating patterns.

K: Stick to one thing at a time. You told me that - you told K rather that comparison is a form of violence. You all agreed. Don't go back on it. And I said it is necessary to compare between that lamp and that lamp - right? That camera and another cheaper camera.

A: Yes it is.

K: That is necessary. But psychologically, inwardly, why do you compare? And he says, and she said, "Oh, it is a reaction, a natural reaction". I said, is it natural, or is it cultivated? Natural being as a baby I grow up, that is natural.

C: It is more something we have been taught to do. Comparison.

K: Between baby and you?

C: No, no, no.

K: You are not listening.

C: To compare, we have been taught at school and everything.

K: Yes, you are educated to compare. We have said that. Which means your brain has been conditioned, educated, trained to compare - right? From that we said a computer, which is programmed will repeat. It may invent its own repeat, you follow, further but it is repetition. Now you are also trained to compare, I am better than you, I am taller than you, I am more clever, I'll get a better job - right? And so on. And much more subtle than that, we are trained, educated, programmed to repeat. Now will you stop that? Will you see the reality of it? That is, how your brain has become mechanical, routine, it is repeating, saying the same thing over and over again: "I can't do it, I must do it, it is too difficult for me, I don't understand, tell me all about it".

D: That is all that my brain seems to do, Krishnaji.

K: Wait, wait. I know.

A: But that is exactly what is happening, sir.

K: I know that. That is why I am repeating it, I am telling you.

B: But can we...

K: Wait sir. Look at it, see how your brain is working.

B: Yes sir. Can I say something?

K: You can say anything you like!

B: Well we said that we were educated to compare. We agree that we are educated to compare.

K: Conditioned.

B: Yes but can we educate ourselves not to compare?

K: Find out, don't ask me.

B: Well you seem to know sir.

K: I may know, I may not know. But find out, question, doubt, ask yourself. Now I have been brought up to compare, suppose I have been brought up, I haven't been, but suppose I have been, compare myself with somebody else much nobler, much more - you follow, all that nonsense. Now why do I compare? Why? You say that is progress - right? That is evolution.

D: Also Krishnaji, you are asking why, there doesn't seem to be a reason. It is just being done constantly.

K: I know, I said that. I have been told from childhood, from babyhood, I am a Catholic, baptized, you know all the rest of it. And I say, "I am a Catholic".

D: Yes.

K: My parents are, I am also. Go on.

D: That is all that my brain knows.

K: Of course, of course. Of course it works that way. So I said you are mechanically functioning - right? So go on.

A: Sir, I think I also want to compare because when I think I am nicer than somebody else I get a certain pleasure out of it.

K: That's it. So you want a reward from it, which is pleasure - right? See the consequences of it, that is, if I don't get it I get punished, I feel hurt, I feel angry, I get depressed - right? I feel, Oh, gosh I am so small - you know. All the depression, all the anger, jealousy - right? All that goes on. All my life. Right? Do you want to live that way? I am just asking for you to find out. Not say, I don't want to live that way - right?

So you have said comparison is one of the factors of violence - right? Will you go into it in yourself and say it is my responsibility not to compare? Or see the whole movement of comparison and therefore end it? Not end it, it will end it self. You understand? Like a water spouting out of a pipe when there is no volume of water behind it, it stops. You understand?

B: Does that mean, sir, you don't compare?

K: Don't ask me what I do, that's not the point. I can tell you, yes I never have compared myself with anybody, not that I am vain and feel very holy, it doesn't occur to me. Don't accept it because I say it, I may be deceiving myself. I have gone into this very carefully. I say I have never done it. It doesn't mean a thing. It doesn't make me into a hero!

A: Sir, when I say that I see that comparison leads to violence, I doubt to what extent I see it.

K: That's right. Then find out what does it mean to see.

A: Yes.

K: I am asking you a question.

A: Because there seems to be some kind of an intellectual seeing, a bunch or words and we see it. But we get stuck in that and it doesn't seem to carry on further, beyond that.

K: Why not? Is it your brain refuses to look in that direction? Is it laziness? Is it a form of saying, well it doesn't matter, everybody compares - you follow?

A: Sir, I don't think I want to give up all that has happened in these past eighteen years.

K: All right, keep it.

A: That is what is preventing me.

K: All right, keep it and be violent. You want both.

A: That is the contradiction.

K: I know, I know. You want to have the cake and eat it! You understand sir?

C: Yes.

B: Well can you find out what does it mean to see?

K: Go on. See, observe - right? What does it mean? I see actually what is going on in the world - right? Actually see, newspapers, television, magazines, books - right? Lectures, for and against. I see what KGB are doing, I see what the Palestinians are doing under different names, different guises, different motives. She hides against somebody else. I see it very clearly, all that, don't you? Right? Why? Why do you say I see that very clearly?

A: I am not sure that I see it very clearly.

B: It is outside of us, sir.

K: Don't you look at television?

A: I do.

K: Haven't you heard or seen in the newspapers the latest hijacking, TWA, what they are doing? You don't see that? See it in newspapers, they talk about it.

A: Sir, he asked a question earlier. I would just like to go back to it. What does it mean to see?

K: I am asking you.

A: But you were using the word all this time and I was getting confused.

K: You mean to say you don't see what is happening? You don't know what is happening?

A: I do.

K: Therefore you understand. You understand there is a tree there, there are these lamps here. These lamps, those trees, the carpet, the chairs, are as factual as the TWA hi-jacking - right? You see that? You hear it.

A: Yes.

K: That is one form hearing, seeing. You can't doubt it.

A: No.

D: No.

K: You can't doubt if he is sitting there.

A: No, not at all.

K: So do you see it, do you hear it, do you know it as a fact - right? As a fact. Right? Are you clear?

A: Yes sir.

K: Right. Do you know as a fact that comparison is a factor of violence? As a fact, not as an idea. You understand sir?

C: Yes.

K: As a fact those lamps are there, these chairs are there, the carpet, the shape of the room, those are facts. You can't immediately change the roof, you may tomorrow. So do you see equally clearly, objectively, that - what were we talking about?

B: Comparison is part of violence.

K: Yes.

D: Krishnaji, can I say how I see it? I see that comparison...

K: I will tell you why, you are asking me to repeat, repeat, I object to that. My brain says why haven't you moved? You understand? You ask the same question over and over again.

A: Well that is because I am getting stuck.

K: No.

A: Yes, sir.

K: Why do you say, you see, or hear, or observe, or read that there is a hijacking going on, starving people, the dirt, the squalor, the annoying thing, the dignity of it, they may be killed, the aeroplane may be - you follow? That is very factual. Do you see it as a fact in yourself that comparison is part of violence? I am not going to repeat it again. I personally can't keep on repeating, repeating.

D: I can see that the comparison that other people do is violent but it is very difficult to see that I am being violent.

C: But if you compare yourself with someone and you may think that he is better than you and then you will feel angry, or ready to do something to him so that he is not as well as you are, or something like that.

K: Just a minute. What is your difficulty? I am asking - we are asking a very, very simple question, what is your difficulty?

D: I think my difficulty is that...

K: Stop, stop, I am not going to listen to you. Stop first. Listen to the question and see the meaning of the question and then find out, and then answer. But you jump to answer immediately.

A: Sir you asked what is the difficulty.

K: Yes, what is the difficulty? You see the clock there very clearly, that is a fact, thirteen minutes to one. Right? Why don't you see as clearly, as definitely, as accurately, that comparison is part of violence?

A: My difficulty is that I tend to say what if. I say if I stop comparing I should be non-violent. But that is what is happening.

K: Why? Because you want a reward.

A: Yes.

K: So you are then not observing the accuracy. I want it to be at ten minutes past one so that I can have my lunch. Then I am not observing, I am not listening.

A: That is why when I say, I see, I doubt it.

K: How can you doubt?

A: No, no, not the clock.

K: Why do you differentiate between the two?

D: Well Krishnaji you made a difference between them.

K: You see you don't even listen, take the trouble.

D: I was going to say that, for instance, you said you can compare between a material and another material, but not psychologically.

K: I don't say anything. I didn't say don't compare.

D: No but...

K: Don't put me in a position and then attack that position. I am asking you, why don't you see as clearly as you see that clock that comparison runs on? Why don't you see it? You are young, your brain is somewhat young, you have already come to the point, "I don't know, I can't do it, you tell me". That's is an old man's game! People all over the world are saying they want leaders - right? You also want that. And I say please don't put me in that position.

A: No, sir I am not asking you for an answer.

K: You are.

A: No, no.

K: You are stuck.

A: I am stuck.

K: All right, be stuck. I doubt if you are stuck.

A: You doubt it? Why do you doubt it?

K: Because you keep on repeating it.

A: That is being stuck.

K: Therefore I don't know. It may be mere gramophone recording.

D: Well I think that is what she calls being stuck, you know. It is repeating it.

K: You are not stuck when you are hungry are you, you rush there? Go on, find out why you see something very, very clearly, the moment you move, or move away from that physical fact you get driven to feel, "oh, I don't know, I am stuck, I am afraid" - you follow - you play that game. So find out what you are doing. Why you are doing it.

A: Often I don't know if I can trust what I feel.

K: It doesn't matter. Don't trust. Why should you trust?

A: No, that is why there is this feeling of I don't know, the uncertainty.

K: Because you are uncertain of yourself.

A: Yes.

K: Therefore find out why you are uncertain. Yes, you agree, but you stop there.

D: Then why don't we want to see things?

K: Whom of you are asking that question?

D: Myself.

K: Ask it and find out the answer. You see what you have been doing for eighteen or twenty years. Asking somebody to tell you what to do. Right? And the other extreme is, I don't want you tell me, I'll do what I like. Right? Agree? With the hippies it began, and it is going on in different ways. I will do what I want to do, who are you to tell me? The hierarchy I disapprove of - you follow all that?

So, I am asking the same question, you haven't answered it.

A: Sir I find it difficult to answer it.

K: No, you haven't even heard the question. That's what I am doubting. You see that clock, now six minutes to one. I have repeated the same thing for twenty minutes, or less or more. So your brain is refusing to move from a position. You don't say, all right, I am going to find out why I see that very clearly and I can't see this fact. Fact, that comparison is one of the factors of violence. That is a fact. Why don't you see that, hear it, taste it? Feel that - why don't you? Oh, you say, "I'm stuck". You don't say that with your examination - right? When you are being examined for an hour you don't say, "Sorry, I am stuck".

B: Sir I think one of the reasons is that we are frightened of what is going to happen when we have moved.

K: Find out if you are frightened. What might happen is not a fact. So you want a reward, you want to be told, you want to be patted on the back, encouraged, push, push, push. And I say, I am sorry I am not pushing.

A: What I don't see is what I am heading towards, then I feel frightened, that's why.

K: Sorry I am not listening to you. You have repeated this ten different ways.

B: That is what I said too.

K: Reward, I am frightened, I have been brought up that way, I know I am being programmed, yes, and you repeat that in different ways. So I say please go on I am rather bored with this. I am not. You know. So you tell me why you see something physically very, very, very clearly, and psychologically you say "I don't know what you are talking about".

A: Something is blocking me from seeing it.

K: Eh!

A: Yes sir.

B: With me it is the same, we know what blocks her.

K: Wait. Answer her.

C: Is it because you are expecting an answer?

K: She says I am blocked.

D: Once again we find excuses.

K: Who is blocking her?

D: Herself.

A: Myself.

K: Find out who is yourself.

A: I don't know.

K: Don't say you don't know. Repeat, repeat. You are all so very lazy. You know if I want to see what is on the other side of that hill, I walk up there and look. But you sit comfortably and say, tell me all about it.

A: No, sir, I don't think I am saying that.

K: More or less you are saying that. I am blocked from climbing the mountain, I am sorry I am frightened of climbing the mountain, something is blocking me from climbing the mountain.

A: But that is how it is.

K: Of course it is. And you say how it is.

A: I am not saying that I should remain with that.

K: Therefore move.

A: But then I get stuck with the question, how do I move?

K: Get up off the chair and go.

A: But I don't see it as simple as that.

K: It is as simple as that if you look at that clock and why you can't see it equally clearly. It's very simple but you are refusing to see it. If you want me to go deeper into it I will. But careful, I am not programming you! Right? I am not telling you what to do, what to think, how to get up from the chair and walk up the hill. I won't enter into that game. Right? But if you want me to go into it, for you to observe your own brain, expand it, break it down, look, change and do something, don't say I don't know.

Now I will tell you: can you look at that tree without the word? Look at that tree and find out if you can look at it. Just observe it. Not say that's a tree and give it a name, etc. etc. Right? Can you do it?

A: No.

K: Why?

A: Because as soon as I look at that book, the word book comes.

K: Back again. I am asking you something: look at that tree, look at that thing that is outside the window and don't call it a tree, but look at it. Or look at that thing on the shelf and don't call it a book but just look. Do you find that terribly difficult? Eh? No. You don't. Right? But she does.

A: Yes, I do.

K: I know you do.

D: Well Krishnaji to tell us to look at it you are naming it.

K: Naming, you have said something. Naming is not observing. I don't bother to look, she is my wife. Oh I have lived with her, had sex, and blah and she is just my wife. But I have never looked at her as a human being - right? Look at her, what she thinks, what she feels, what she - you follow? Just look. Right? But you don't. And don't say I am stuck! It is a very simple thing to look at that tree without the word. Find out why the word comes out so quickly, and says, tree. That's a tiger. A snake.

C: Because we have a general idea.

K: No, don't answer it yet. Find out. You have already answered it. Why do you name these things so quickly. Right? "My father, my mother was like that", and already you have got images - right? That is all I am preventing - not preventing - that is what is happening. You are not free - I won't go into it - you are not free of image making. That's a book.

A: I want to identify things.

K: No, no. You see you have already gone ahead. You don't begin simply. I know you have a clever brain.

A: No, sir, that doesn't seem to be simple.

K: No, no, listen to me carefully. The Indians are pretty good as this kind of game.

B: Can we let Krishnaji go on for a while?

K: You haven't even learnt a very simple fact. Look at that thing without naming it. You don't even begun with that, you have already become complicated. You don't say, now let me look, take time. Can you look at anything silently? Your father, your mother, your friend, your husband, anything, the terrorists, look silently to find out. You understand? That may change the whole thing. But you are not even willing to do it. Then you will ask me, how am I to be silent. I am blocked.

So go into all this patiently, not take years, I don't mean that. Because you are young, you have a long life ahead of you - right? If you don't begin to learn now when you are young, you will say, I am stuck, at the age of fifty - right? Oh, I can't solve this problem. And I go to a psychiatrist, or to the priest, or get depressed, or hit my husband, get annoyed with him - right? This is going on. So begin from now, as you are young, to look at something without naming it. Then you will begin to learn why you name. Sirs, this is very important to learn this simple fact, very simple fact. Look at your prime ministers, your politicians, and look at them, the rulers of the world, right? You will learn, you will feel, you will understand something so enormously important. Naming may be a factor of self-importance, a factor of security - you understand? Go into it all. Don't be lazy, that's all. Don't ever, ever say, I'm stuck, because nobody is going to help you. I know you want to be helped but nobody is going to do it. They will be fools. The gurus say, come with me, sit with me, you will be all right, you feel happy. Don't enter into all that. Enquire. Put your energy into it.

I am afraid this has to be the last. You are going away, or coming back? You will be next term here, you are sure?

A: Yes.

K: I am just asking.

B: Yes.

C: I am coming back.

K: So we may meet again - right? And don't begin to tell me you are stuck. You have two and a half months, or three months.


Brockwood Park 1985

Brockwood Park 3rd Conversation with Four Students 18th June 1985

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