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Rishi Valley 1985

Rishi Valley 1st Dialogue with Students 5th December 1985

Krishnamurti: What would you like me to talk about?

Student: Why are you superior and we inferior? Why do we feel that way - many of us?

K: Feel superior? My god, I never thought about it. Why do we feel that you are superior to the rest of us? Is that it?

S: Many of us feel that.

K: Many of us feel that way. Why? Why do you think?

S: Maybe because everybody is talking about you.

K: Oh, everybody's talking about me. Too bad! But apart from that, why do you think that way at all?

S: I don't know.

K: You don't know.

S: It just comes into our minds.

K: Just comes into our brains. Why? I've been all over the world, which you haven't been. I have been, before the war, the second world war, all over Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Fiji, South America, all over America, Europe and so on, does that make any difference?

S: No.

K: No. Then what makes you different from somebody else?

S: Maybe, we build up opinions about the other person.

K: Why do you have opinions about other people? You tell me why you have different opinions from others. What is an opinion? You are clever boys, come on! Those two sitting up among the mighty! What is an opinion? Why do we have opinions; about me, about each other, about other people? Why do you have opinions, what do you mean by opinions?

S: An image, an idea.

K: An image, or an idea about other people. Why do you have them? You don't know me. Right? You don't know me, do you? I come here once in a while and there is a lot of fuss about it. Right? But you don't really know me. Why do you have an opinion of me? I may be an awful crook, I may be a charlatan, a humbug, anything you like, but you don't know me. So why do you have an opinion about me? Opinion means, a suggestion first. Also it means that you have a preconceived idea about me. Also you have an image about him. According to that image you translate what he says, what he looks like, and all the rest of it. So, why do you have all this? I'm asking all of you, why do you have opinions?

S: Curiosity.

K: Why do you have curiosity about me? I'll tell you all you want to know about me, everything you want to know about me. Right? So why are you curious about me? How I comb my hair, how I brush my teeth, how long I sleep? Right? Do you want to know all that? No, you don't. Be honest, you don't. So what do you want to know about me? You don't know. So, why do you have an opinion about me? Why do you have an opinion about each other. That means, I have an opinion about you and that opinion prevents me from looking at you. Opinion interferes between me and you. Right? So why do you have that?

S: Then, how do you look at another person?

K: How do you look at another person? Look at me. I look at you, why do you need an opinion? I look at you. You have cut your hair up to here. I have combed my hair. You have seen my photograph probably. So what? Why do you have an opinion? Go on, think it out. Are you really thinking or are you just being silent? Can you look at somebody, listen to somebody without a single opinion, so that you hear what he says? Right? You understand what he says; you begin to grasp the significance, the meaning of what another is saying. Right? But if you have an opinion you can't hear. Right? So will you listen to me when I talk? Actually listen? With your ear and listen to what he has to say without translating what he is going to say to you. That means actually listen to somebody. Actually listen. Will you listen to your teacher?

S: Yes, sir.

K: Don't lie, don't pretend. Do you listen to your teacher?

S: Not all the time.

K: Not all the time. Good! When do you listen to them? Don't look at them. When do you listen to them? You four are talking, let the others talk too. When do you listen to your teacher or to your educator?

S: When it suits you.

K: When it suits you. Perfectly right! When it is comfortable to you, when it is nice for you, when it suits you, you listen to him. Right? That's not listening, is it? You know what to listen means, don't you? That is: you hear a sound and that's conveyed to your brain which then translates into the language you are accustomed to and says this is what he is saying to me. Right? So do you listen to anybody? Carefully, not just casually. But do you actually listen to anybody? To your father, to your uncle, your aunt, your mother, your teacher, your friend, do you actually listen to anybody?

S: We listen to you.

K: You are listening to me, why? Are you really listening to me or pretending, saying, "Yes, let's get on with it". Are you actually listening? Do you listen to the birds?

S: When we have no distractions we do listen.

K: You do it when? As a distraction.

S: No. If there is no distraction you do listen to what is said.

K: Why do you use the word 'distractions'? Tell me, you grown uppeople up there sitting quietly, why do you use the word 'distraction'? You know what that word means.

S: Something that comes in the way of something else.

K: Old boy, I am asking you, what do you mean by distraction? To be attracted, right? And to be distracted. What are you attracted by? Are you listening to me? Is it fun? Are you forced to listen to me? Nobody asked you to come and listen to me, have they? Are you quite sure? Don't look at them. You see the older ones don't talk at all because they are higher up. And you too when you grow up to be a little higher, you will also stop talking. But you don't stop talking amongst yourselves but you stop talking to me. Right? Why? Are you curious about what I want to say? Do you want me to tell you where I have been? Do you want me to tell you whom I met?

S: No, sir.

K: No. You are not interested, are you? These three birds are talking all the time! I'm glad you're talking. But the others keep quiet. Why? I met your Prime Minister, I met the Vice President. Then had lunch and dinner and we gabbled - you know what the word 'gabbled' means? Talked. And we met several other people. What is a politician?

S: Somebody who campaigns elections, to win elections and to look after the state or country in some high post. Who leads the country, sir.

K: Leads the country. Are they leading the country?

S: No, sir.

K: Then why do you use those words 'lead the country'?

S: Who helps the country?

K: What do you mean the country?

S: The place we live in.

K: What do you mean the country? Which country?

S: Any country.

K: Any country. So are the politicians leading the country?

S: They are trying to help.

K: Trying to help what? Poverty.

S: Trying to help solve problems.

K: What problems? Tell me what problems are?

S: Sir, to solve grievances of other people.

K: Grievances of other people. Right? Have you got grievances? Against whom? I wish some of them would talk. What are you interested in? Do you want to talk to me or shall I go on talking to myself?

S: Sir, I would like to talk about fear.

K: Fear. That is a tremendous subject, isn't it? Are you afraid of something? Be honest.

S: Sometimes I am.

K: Sometimes you are. What do you mean by fear? Carefully think it out, carefully listen to the meaning of that word, 'fear'. Are you afraid of your mother and father? Sometimes.

S: Sometimes when they get angry.

K: Yes, sometimes. Now what is the feeling that you have when you are frightened? When you have fear. What is the feeling? Go on, sir. Think it out carefully. Don't just say anything. When you have fear what is the feeling of it? What is the taste of it? You have tasted bananas, you have tasted various types of food; what is the taste of fear? Especially for the older people, the older students. They are very frightened because they have got to pass exams and their fathers will tell them what to so. Right? You're also going to be told what to do; pass exams, get a job, you know all that. So what is the feeling of fear?

S: You feel like you want to withdraw into something away from what is frightening you.

K: Yes, you see a cobra. There are several of them here, I believe, I haven't seen them, long and rather poisonous. You are frightened, right? And you withdraw. What is the feeling of it?

S: The pain you are going to get.

K: The pain - yes, let's keep to that word. The pain that you might have if a cobra bites. Now, what is that feeling like? You haven't been bitten, but you imagine what might happen or think what might happen, and you have fear. I am asking you if I may most politely, what is the feeling of that? Perhaps the older generation will join us. What is the feeling of fear? Think it out sir, go on. Don't go to sleep, it's early morning!

S: Sir, maybe your mind is troubled.

K: The brain is troubled. What do you mean by that?

S: Sir, you don't understand what you are doing

K: You don't understand what you're doing. Right? You see a cobra on the road, or along the path and you know it is a poisonous thing, right? And you run away from it, or cry, shout. I'm asking you what is the feeling behind that?

S: Sir, you feel slightly restless.

K: You feel restless, you feel anxious. You get frightened. What is the feeling of that being frightened?

S: You feel insecure.

K: Insecure. What do you mean by that word 'insecure'? Go on. Examine it step by step.

S: Without protection.

K: Without protection. You've not been bitten by the cobra, right? You've already preconceived all this. Right? Do you understand what I am saying? You have imagined you might get hurt, you might go to bed, you might die. You get frightened. I'm asking you. You're not answering my question if you don't mind my saying so, what is the feeling of it? What is behind these words?

S: We feel just as if our muscles tighten up and there's a... I don't know how to describe it.

K: You tell me.

S: Just as if your heart has stopped beating and sometimes for people like me it starts beating faster.

K: I don't understand.

Narayan: He says that the heart beats faster.

K: That's what I want you to tell me. The heart beats faster.

N: He says, the muscles stiffen.

K: Muscles tighten. By Jove, come up here, old boy. You don't mind sitting next to me?

S: No, sir.

K: You do mind?

S: No, sir.

K: Then sit next to me. Two monkeys! Heart beats faster. Your muscles contract. And what else happens? Go on, just tell me. You wanted to discuss about fear. That's what I'm doing. Right?

S: You feel like getting rid of it.

K: You want to kill it. All right, your muscles contract.

S: You feel as though a bell is tingling inside you.

K: What do you mean by that? Have you ever been really frightened?

S: Yes, sir.

K: I doubt it.

S: At the moment you want to do something, you want to run but you can't do it.

K: Yes, old girl. But I am asking you something else, you're not telling me.

S: You start fretting.

K: He said to me, the muscles contract, you know, shrink and your brain becomes for a second numb, it doesn't think, it is frightened.

S: It thinks of the past images.

K: It thinks of past images. Does it, at the moment when you are frightened, when you see the cobra or a second later? By Jove, how dangerous it is, you run away from it, you throw stones at it from a distance and so on. But you're not telling me if you don't mind my repeating it, what is the feeling behind it? You know that feeling when you get hurt, you know that feeling when you burn your finger.

You know that feeling when somebody hits you. I hope nobody does, but if somebody hits you. You know the feeling of it. So what is the feeling of fear? Don't tell me, carefully think it out. The feeling. The feeling when somebody insults you, you know what it means. The feeling when somebody flatters you. Right? So you know the feeling of all that. But I am asking you: what is the feeling, the sensation behind fear?

S: You feel frightened.

K: Yes, old boy, I said that you feel frightened. But what is the feeling behind it?

S: Sir, I think it's a feeling of complete confusion.

K: A feeling of confusion. What does that word 'confusion' mean? You see you don't think it out.

S: You don't know what to do.

K: You don't know what to do. Quite right. Go on.

S: You don't know if you do something, it will be right or wrong. You have not had the experience.

K: Yes. So your muscles contract, your brain is confused, there is a feeling of isolation, you know what that means?

S: Yes.

K: A feeling of being completely isolated from others. You're facing a cobra, facing something dangerous, and you shrink.

S: You feel stunned at that moment.

K: That's it. When you have fear, you feel stunned. Your nerves are all shrunk. Right? You feel you're isolated and so on and so on. Now, just a minute. You feel all that, then what do you do? She asked that question, she said 'talk about fear', fear of passing examinations or not passing. Right? Fear of failure, fear of your parents, fear of your educators, fear of snakes; fear. Right?

You have dozens of fears. Right? Dozens of them. Agreed? Right? Now what causes fear? What is the cause? You understand when I am using the word 'cause'? Do you understand the word, when I use 'cause'?

S: Yes. What is the motivation.

K: What is the motivation? What is the beginning of fear. What starts fear? What is the cause, what is the root, what is the basis of fear? I have used some words, you understand, 'cause', 'motive', the 'root'. Right?

S: You suppose when you think that this may happen. If I don't pass my examination what will my parents think of me? So you think this might happen and so you feel fear.

K: Yes. That is, what will others think of you if you fail your exam. I hope you will all fail!

S: If you think of the future you then get scared.

K: Wait a minute. Stop there. What do you mean by the future?

S: What's going to happen tomorrow.

K: What might happen. Right? If I fail in my examination, and I hope you all will, and you think of the future, what your parents say, what your teachers say. Right? What do you mean by the future?

S: Sir, what might happen? Somebody might hit you.

K: I understand old boy. What do you mean by future?

S: What is going to happen in the past. (Laughter)

K: The past is over! I'm asking you what is the future. What do you mean by the word? Please do listen - this is important for you. What do you mean by the future?

S: What might happen?

K: What might happen. That is, you might - not you I hope - I might get ill, I might be killed, I might be wounded. That is all in the future, isn't it? You might be. Right?

S: When you get scared you think it will happen.

K: Yes. Now wait a minute, what is the future, I'm asking you. Tomorrow is the future. Isn't it? Right?

S: Yes, sir.

K: Next second is the future, next hour. So I'm asking you: what do you mean by the future? Careful. Think it out carefully. Don't just say something that comes to you. The future.

S: Future is when you don't know what is going to happen.

K: I said that. That means the future: What might happen, what might not happen; I hope it will happen; I hope it will not; all that is the future. Right? You might grow taller, I might grow shorter - might, might, might. So the word 'might' implies the future, a possibility. Right? It might happen. You might fall down. I might get ill. All that is implied in the future. Right? Agreed to that?

S: Yes, sir.

K: Now what is future? That is tomorrow. Today, it is now five minutes past ten, and in another five minutes it will be ten minutes past ten, future. Think it out. This is important for you. What do you mean by the future.

S: What is going to happen tomorrow.

K: Darling, we said that. We said future is what might, might not happen. Future is tomorrow. Right? Future is the next second. Right? So what does that mean? Future. It is too complicated for you.

S: Future is something unknown to you.

K: Is it unknown to you?

S: At times it might be known to you. If you know what might be happening, if you know you are going to get into the college or something, then you will know what will happen to you.

K: If you pass the exam. Right?

S: When somebody tells you what's going to happen, then you know the future.

K: Yes, old boy. We have been through all that when we said it might happen, it's always in the future. Right? Or it may not happen. It's future. It is too difficult for you. So fear means either now, actual fear now or in the future. Right? Are you afraid now?

S: Not now.

K: Why?

S: Because there is nothing to fear.

K: There is nothing to fear. But when you enter the class, here nobody is telling you what to do, what not to do, what to think, what not to think. Nobody is telling you that. Therefore, you don't care. Or you are really listening to find our. Right? No. You're too young, too small. Fear is one of the most difficult things to understand and to be free of it. Right? People have gone to war, killed each other on account of fear. You understand? I might lose my country, I might lose my property, I might not belong to this group, you understand? So war, killing has been going on for two million years. You understand this? For two million years human beings have killed each other.

S: Why?

K: Because he and I belong to one tribe. You and another belong to another tribe. Right? You want our land or we want your land or we want to steal your property - you follow, this kind of battle, killing, wounding, maiming each other has been going on for two million years.

S: Sir, there is division between us.

K: Division. There is India and Pakistan. That's a division, isn't it? So they are willing to kill each other.

S: Sir, but why?

K: Why? Very simple. I'm a Pakistani. He is a Hindu. I want him to become a Muslim. Right? Or I think my country is bigger, nobler, and so on than his country.

S: What do they gain by that, by making other people Muslim or whatever they are?

K: That's just it. What do we gain from it? You answer me. They are silly people. Right? No, listen carefully. This is happening in England, happening in Germany, in America, Russia. It's happening everywhere. This country is a poor country. Right? You go down the village and you see appalling poverty, and yet they are building tremendous armaments. Right? Why?

S: Sir, because...

K: No, listen carefully. As long as you're an Indian and you feel you're an Indian you're going to kill somebody. Right? So nationalism, racialism, tribalism, as long as that exists you're going to kill somebody or somebody will come and kill you.

S: Sir, if you have no nationality, then what do you identify yourself with?

K: If you have no nationality, how can you identify yourself with something. Right? Why do you want to identify with India, with America, with Russia, why?

S: Sir, I feel secure as being a part of it.

K: No, wait a minute. You feel secure. Right? Do you?

S: But then you still have fears of your country being ruined. If you are a part of something, you are an Indian or something like that you always have a fear of people coming and attacking you or saying that you should be what you just said or a Muslim or something like that.

K: I don't understand.

S: She said that, you feel insecure, if you don't have a nationality or if you can't say you are an Indian or you are an American. When you say that, you still have the fear of being attacked.

K: Yes. So you are willing to kill me as a Muslim? You must be an idiot. Why do you want to kill me? Because I believe in some other god? But why do you want to kill me?

S: Sir, to get a good name.

K: To get a good name, by killing me?

S: It seems that you are more powerful after that.

K: You feel happier for killing me?

S: Because then you feel that you are more powerful.

K: You are all rather a crazy crowd. I was invited, if I may talk about it, I hope you don't mind, I was invited to speak at the United Nations. You know what that is?

S: Yes, sir.

K: Yes? Are you sure?

S: Yes, sir.

K: Are you sure you are sitting here?

S: Yes, sir.

K: I was invited to speak at the United Nations, and I spoke for forty five minutes. One of the chief organizers of that body, after I had spoken he gets up and says 'great privileges' etc - etc., 'to meet you sir' and so on, and he says, "I have worked here in the organization for forty years, very hard." You understand what I'm saying, forty years he has worked very hard to create, to sustain, to keep the United Nations going and he says, "After forty years I have learnt not to kill another human being." Do you understand what I'm saying? Are you as dumb as the United Nations? Do you understand what I'm saying? It took him forty years to learn not to kill another human being. Forty years! Do you understand what I'm saying? Are you going to do the same?

S: No, sir.

K: I'm not sure.

S: At least now I'm not going to do it. Now I don't think I'm going to kill another person. I don't know when I grow up.

K: That's right. You will be equally an idiot, will you?

S: I can't say.

K: You're quite right. It's too difficult for you to understand, what is the root of fear. Much too difficult. There is fear, you always control it or run away from it or suppress it or cry. Right? But perhaps there is another way of dealing with it altogether. Do you want to know? But that requires a great deal of thinking, a great deal of investigating. How long do you spend studying mathematics or biology or science, how many years? Years, don't you? School, college, university. All of you spend about twenty or twenty five years going through all that. Right? And you won't even spend ten minutes or five minutes to find out if you can be free of fear. You spend twenty years on some beastly subject and you won't even spend five minutes to understand the nature of fear. That's correct. Right?

So you have to learn a great deal, you have to understand a great deal. What is the root of fear. I will tell you very briefly. Fear is involved in time; tomorrow, might happen. Right? So you have to investigate what time is. That's too difficult for you. Not only by the clock, but what time is. You plant a seed, it takes time to grow. You have a baby it takes time to become an adolescent. One is unhealthy, then to become healthy takes time. Right? You are learning mathematics or physics, or whatever you are learning and to be able to pass an exam in that subject takes time. It takes time for you to get from here to Madanapalle or to your home. You understand? Time is very important in one's life. Not only to go from here to there but also to grow, physically grow and then inwardly to grow. All that takes time. And it has taken time from the first man till now, two million years, called evolution. Right? So your whole life is bound by time. You understand? All your life is bound by time. You're living now, you might die, there is a long number of years. Right? So our whole life is entangled, is concerned with time. You will pass your exams or you might not. Time. Then we have to enquire what is time. It is too difficult.

S: Time is relative; is it not?

K: I know that, I said that, lady. I did not purposely use that word because relative means something else also, "He is my relative". Now just a minute. Time is relative, but what do you mean by time? Sir, there you are, grown-up people who are going to pass exams, who are going to get your jobs, get married. All that takes time. Right? So is man bound forever to time? No, it is too difficult. What do you say, sir? Do you understand?

S: I did not quite understand.

K: You did not quite understand. Look, you are very small now. You will grow up, to be tall, to be..., so all that takes time. Doesn't it? If you are ill it takes time to get well. It takes time to get up in the morning, to get ready, all the rest of it, to bathe and all that - it takes time. It takes time to learn a subject, to learn a skill, to learn to plant a seed in the garden and see it grow. Everything in life takes time. Right?

S: Yes, sir.

K: And man is bound by time: to go from here to there. Where do you live?

S: I live in Bombay.

K: Bombay. It took time for you to come from Bombay to Rishi Valley.

S: Yes, sir.

K: Two nights or one night or whatever it was. And also to pass your exams, to get a job and all that takes time. So you are bound by time. Clear?

S: Yes, sir.

K: Clear? That means - I won't go into all that. It's too complex for you to understand. Whatever you do is bound by time, which is the past, which says you don't do that, the past says you don't do that. If you do it you will be punished or you will gain. So the past is controlling you now. Get it?

S: Yes, sir.

K: Understand it very simply first. The past is controlling what you do now. I must not do that, you have had the same experience and the past says: don't do it again or you will get ill. The past is shaping your thinking, which means the past means time. So time is shaping what you do now, and the future depends on what you do now.

S: Yes, sir.

K: Clear? Think it out, old boy. Think it out carefully. The past is teaching you, telling you what to do now and what you do now will shape the future. So the future is being put together now, manufactured.

S: At this moment.

K: At this moment. Get it?

S: Yes, sir.

K: Are you sure? So the past controls the present, and the present it shaping the future. So careful, think it out. So the future is now being manufactured. Get it?

S: Yes, sir.

K: So the future is now being formed, get it?

S: Yes, sir.

K: I wonder if you do.

S: Sir, I do.

K: So what you do now is most important. Not what you will do tomorrow. Get it? What you do now is all important because that is going to make your future. Get it?

S: Yes, sir.

S: Sir, is time limited?

K: Don't bother, old lady. Don't ask abstract questions because I can give you an abstract answer, but it has no meaning. Time is always limited. So is there a way - this is much too difficult - is there a way of being free of time?

S: No, sir.

K: Why do you say no?

S: Sir, when one is living there is no way, but maybe after death.

K: Do you know what death means?

S: No, sir.

K: Then don't use that word. Ask yourself a question. Don't try to answer it. Ask yourself. Which is, your brain inside the skull is put together through two million years, conditioned, shaped, moulded, experience, knowledge, all that is there: now can you now do what is right so that it will be right all the way along? You understand my question?

S: Yes, sir.

K: This is too difficult. Right?

S: Sir, what's the true meaning of concentration and attention?

K: Do you really want to know?

S: Yes, sir.

K: Why? Think it out. Did somebody else tell you to ask that question?

S: Yes, sir.

K: Ah, yes.

S: My father told me that you had once made a comment that you need attention more than concentration.

K: Your father told you. Why? You know what concentration is? Listen: I'm your teacher, your educator, you are looking out of the window, much more interesting than the page. Right?

S: Yes, sir.

K: I'm the teacher and I say: please look at the page, and you don't want to look at the page but you want to look at the bird out there. Right? So he says, "If you want to learn look at the page". And he gets annoyed if you keep on looking out of the window. So he comes up and shakes you, or pulls your ear, or pulls your hair or beats you up. Nobody beats you up here, I hope. No.

So what happens? You want to look out of the window but somebody says, look at the page. So you're in conflict. Aren't you? You want to look out there and you want to look at the page. So you have a conflict. Right?

S: Yes, sir.

K: So conflict goes not necessarily with concentration. Right? I want to concentrate on the page. I force myself to pay a great deal of notice to the page, a great deal of concentration, that means I don't try to think of anything else but what is on the page. In that process there is a great deal of resistance, conflict, because I want to look out there, but I have to look at this page. You understand? So there is a great deal of conflict, a great deal of effort. I won't go into it. Whereas attention has no effort. Whoever has asked you to ask me that question, tell them that. In attention there is no effort at all. You attend.

We have been together this morning for an hour. Do you want to go on?

S: Yes, sir.

K: Ah, yes? Why? It's more fun! And there is a class waiting for you and you don't want to go to the class but you want to be entertained! Right? Have you ever looked at those flowers?

S: Yes, sir.

K: Have you looked at them? Look at them. Take time and trouble to look at those flowers for a minute. Look at them. Look at the mixture of colours, and the beauty of them, the setting of them, the light on them. Now, what does that mean to you? Don't say, beauty or - what does it mean to you? When you look at all that spread of colour and the variations in that colour, the green against the red, the further dark green and all that, what does it mean to you?

S: What does it mean to you, sir?

K: I will tell you in a minute. I asked you the question first.

S: Sir, I feel it means that; why do we want all these houses and mechanical things when there is so much of nature?

K: It is much easier to look at a mechanical thing. But to look at nature, the hills and the shadows, the rocks, the shape of the rocks, the fields, how they are sown, all in line, or mangoes growing, and the birds and the butterflies and the green earth, the shadow, the streams and so on. Look at it, look at the beauty of it, the greatness of it, the majesty of those rocks. But you are all concentrated on books. Right? On books, passing exams, getting a job, getting married and having a house. That's all you are interested in. Right, sir? But beyond the house there is the horizon. Right? And beyond the house are all those marvellous hills and beauty and greatness.

Sir, is that enough for this morning? Yes? Are you going to have a nice day? Have a nice day.

S: Thank you, sir.

K: Enjoy yourself. Right? Tell the class to go to hell! You know I am inciting you? You know what that means?

S: No, sir.

K: Inciting you to blow up. You can't. Don't blow up with guns and dynamite. Have a good day. Right? Have a happy day. It's a beautiful morning. Enjoy it. All right, sir.


Rishi Valley 1985

Rishi Valley 1st Dialogue with Students 5th December 1985

Texts and talks of Jiddu Krishnamurti. Krishnamurti quotes. Books about
J Krishnamurti. Philosophy.


the 48 laws of power