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Mind Without Measure

Bombay

Mind Without Measure Talks in Bombay 2nd Public Talk 23rd January, 1983 'The Good Mind'

May we continue with what we were talking about yesterday evening? We said the present condition of racial divisions, linguistic divisions, religious divisions, national divisions as Muslim and the Hindu, the Jew and the Arab, the American and the European, the Russian, the Chinese, and so on has brought about a great many wars. Where there is division there must be conflict, not only division between man and woman in their relationship, but also division as racial, religious and linguistic. Also we went into the question of why does this constant conflict between man and man exist, what is the root of it, what is the cause of all this chaos, anarchy, near anarchy, bad governments, each nation preparing for wars, one guru more important than the other, and so on. We are seeing this division throughout the world, and also historically it has existed for many, many centuries. What is the cause of it? Who is responsible for it? We said thought has divided man against man; thought has also created the most extraordinary architecture, painting, poetry and the whole world of technology, medicine, surgery, communications, computers, robots, and so on. Thought has brought about health, good medicine and various forms of human comfort. But thought also has created this vast division between man and man, and we ask what is the cause of all this, Who is responsible for all this? And we said, where there is a cause, there is an end. When you have a certain disease, the cause can be found of that disease, and the disease can be cured. So wherever there is a cause, there is an end to that cause. That is obviously a fact. If thought has created this confusion, this uncertainty, this perpetual danger, then what will happen if thought is not used?

We are together investigating, asking why man throughout the world lives and perpetuates conflict not only within himself but outwardly - in society, in religion, in the economy, and so on. That thought is responsible for the mess, for the division, for all the misery of human beings, is fairly obvious. If one recognizes that fact, not as a theory or philosophical statement but the actual fact of it, that thought, however clever, however crafty, however erudite, is responsible for this mess, then what is man to do? That is where we left off yesterday. We said also that thought has created marvellous cathedrals, temples and mosques, and all the things that are in the temples, mosques and churches are the invention of thought. Thought has created god because thought seeks to find security. Finding uncertainty, insecurity, conflict, in this world, thought invents an entity, a principle, an ideal which gives it security, comfort; but that comfort, that security, is the invention of thought. It is very obvious, if you observe your own thinking, that thought has created this division and this conflict. Then we can ask a question: why does this conflict exist, why have we lived with conflict from immemorial times - conflict between the good and the bad, between `what is' and `what should be', the actual and the ideal?

Why does man live in conflict? What is conflict? What is the nature of conflict? I do not know if some of you have seen those caves in the south of France where, 25, 30 thousand years ago, there is a picture of man fighting evil in the form of a bull, and so on. For thousands of years we have lived with conflict. To meditate, it becomes a conflict. Does conflict exist where there is comparison? Comparison means measurement. One compares oneself with another. Where there is comparison, there must be fear, there must be conflict. Can one live without comparison at all? We think that by comparing ourselves with somebody we are progressing. You want to be like your guru, you want to achieve enlightenment, position, you want a follower, you want to be respected, and so on. So, where there is a becoming psychologically, there must be conflict. Is it possible to live a life without any comparison and therefore without any conflict? We are questioning the whole process of psychological becoming. A child becomes an adult, then grows into manhood. To learn a language we need time, to acquire any skill we need time. We are asking, is becoming psychologically one of the reasons of conflict - the `what is' to be changed into `what should be' - `I am not good but I will be good, I am greedy, envious, but perhaps one day I will be free of all this.' Desire to become, which is measurement, which is comparison, is that one of the causes of conflict?

There is another reason for conflict - which is, there is duality. We are examining something to understand the nature of conflict and to find out for ourselves if it is possible to be totally, completely, free of conflict. Conflict wears out the brain, makes the mind old. A man who has lived without conflict is an extraordinary human being. It is important to realize the necessity of understanding conflict. We see that measurement, comparison, brings about conflict. Also we have stated that there is duality. Some of your philosophers have stated that, posited that there is duality and that one of the reasons of this conflict is this duality. There is duality - night and morning, light and shade, tall and short, bright and dull morning, sun rising and sun setting. Physically there is duality: you are a woman and another is a man. But we are asking, is there psychological duality at all? Or is there only `what is'? I am violent, that is, there is only violence, not non-violence. The non-violence is just an idea. It is not a fact. Where there is violence and non-violence, there must be conflict. In this country, you are talking endlessly about non-violence, but probably you are also very violent people. The fact is, human beings throughout the world are violent. That is a fact. Violence means not only physical violence but also imitation, conformity, obedience, acceptance.

There are other forms of violence, but there is only `what is'. But if you are conditioned to pursue non-violence while you are violent, that is, to move away from the fact, then you must have conflict. Whereas, if one dealt with `what is', there is only one fact - that is I am violent, and in the understanding of the nature and structure of violence there may be the ending of violence, but the ending of violence is not a problem. Our minds are trained, educated, to solve problems - mathematical problems, economic problems, political problems, and so on. Our brains are conditioned to deal mechanically with problems. And we make of life a series of endless problems psychologically. We went into that yesterday. So there is only fact, not the opposite. Is this very clear - that the ideal, the principle, that which you call the noble, are all illusions? What is fact is, we are violent, ignorant, corrupt, uncertain, and so on. Those are facts and we have to deal with facts. Facts don't create problems if you face them. I discover that I am violent, and I have no opposite to it. I reject totally the opposite, it has no meaning. There is only fact.

Now, how do I deal with fact? How do I approach fact? How do I look at that fact? What is my motive in looking at the fact? What is the direction in which I want the fact to move? I must be aware of the nature and structure of the fact, I must be aware of the fact without choice. How does one deal with fact? That is, how do I observe the fact that I am violent? That violence is shown when I am angry, when I am jealous. If I am trying to compare myself with another, if I am doing all that, then it is impossible to face facts. A good mind faces facts. If you are in business, you face facts and deal with the fact, change the fact; you don't pretend that you will do something else away from the fact. Then you are not a good businessman. But here we are so ineffectual because we don't deal with facts. Psychologically, inwardly, we avoid them. We escape from them, or when we do discover them, we suppress them. So there is no resolution of any of them. From that, we ask something else, which is: What is a good mind? Is a mind good when it is full of knowledge?

What is knowledge? We are all very proud of having knowledge, scholastic knowledge through experience, knowledge through incidents, accidents. Accumulated memory is knowledge. An experience can never be complete. Is a good mind a free, comprehensive, global, mind, or is a good mind parochial, narrow, nationalistic, traditional? A good mind is a free mind. It is not a contemporary mind. A good mind is not of time, a good mind is not concerned with time, with environment. It can deal with environment, it can deal with time, but in itself, it is totally free. Such a mind has no fear. Whereas, our minds have been so educated, so trained, that we are not original. There is no depth; knowledge is always superficial. We are concerned with the understanding of the human being, his mind, his action, his behaviour; his responses are limited because his senses are limited. Is it possible for him to be completely, wholly, free? One must have a good mind, not just accumulation of words, which does not mean a clever mind, crafty mind. We are very cunning, crafty, subtle, but that is not a good mind. So, is it possible for us, living in this modem world with all the activities that happen, the influences and newspapers and constant repetition, with our minds being programmed like a computer, as a Hindu, Sikh, and so on, to be strong, healthy, active, full of alertness? Such a mind is necessary. Only then is it possible to bring about a psychological revolution and so a new society, a new culture.

I hope you are listening. It is important to know the art of listening: it is to listen, to see the truth of it and act. For us, we see something to be true, we understand logically, reasonably, very clearly, but we don't act. There is an interval between perception and action. Between the perception and action all other incidents take place. Therefore you will never act. If you see that violence in you is a fact and not try to become non-violent, which is non-fact, but if you perceive the nature of violence, the complexity of violence and listen to your own violence, it will reveal the nature of itself. Then there is the end of violence, completely.

As we said earlier, a chattering mind is an unhealthy mind. It perpetually talks, not only about business problems, mathematical problems, and so on, but problems of one's relationship with husband, wife, children, with the neighbour. It is perpetually occupied, and such occupation will inevitably wear down, weigh down, the capacity of the brain. It is obvious. Is it possible not to chatter? When we realize this chattering and ask the question is it possible to stop it, then we make a problem of it. Our brains are trained to solve problems. So we solve it by saying I must not chatter, and I must try to control, and then the problem arises: Who is the controller? Is the controller different from the controlled? When a problem arises, you are ready to solve it, and brains like ours are trained to solve problems. In solving one problem, other problems increase. So, see a fact that you are violent and make the story of violence read itself; and it will, if your mind is quiet. But don't make a problem of it - `How is the brain to be quiet?' Is it possible to look, to observe, without any choice, to look at your greed, envy, ambitions, your arrogance? Have you not noticed how many people are arrogant? Not the politician, that is understood; he wants power, position, prestige. Where there is power, there is evil. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Now, are you arrogant? The man who is trying to become something psychologically is arrogant. A person is arrogant when he tries to become something which he is not. The becoming is the movement of arrogance. Sirs, look at it. It denies totally the sense of humility. When you are facing facts, then you have to be totally humble, not cultivate humility. Only the vain cultivate humility. When they are vain, arrogant, they may cultivate humility, but their humility is still arrogance. We are all treading the same path of becoming and therefore being utterly dishonest, pretending to be what we are not. Whereas, a good mind faces the fact, the fact that you are violent; arrogant. Nobody has to tell me that you are arrogant, it is so obvious. The way you talk, the way you behave, if one is at all awake, one sees the nature of arrogance. To see it, to comprehend it and to hold it, not try to escape from it, is to solve it. When there is perception of that which is, that is arrogance, that very perception demands immediate action. That is intelligence. If I see something dangerous - and violence is tremendous danger for a healthy, sane, rational, passionate mind - and if there is the perception of that, that very perception demands immediate action. That is the ending of it. Perception doesn't demand analysis. Perception is something actual, understanding it, looking at it, ending it, and then from there you can reason. That very reasoning will be logical. But if you begin with logic, reason, find out the cause, then you will take time and the cause will multiply.

So, is it possible to live a life without a single problem? We are not talking of mathematical problems and so on, but problems of relationship. To have no problems in relationship - is that possible? You have problems with your wife, with your father, with your mother, with your children. Why? If the daily living is not in order, you can meditate till you are blue in the face, that meditation has no meaning. It is merely an escape; you might just as well take a drug and enjoy yourself. If you don't put your house in order, which is your relationship, if that house is not in order, then your society will not be in order. You must begin near to go very far. The near is your relationship. Why are problems there? Why do you have problems with your wife, with your husband, with your children, with your neighbour, with your government, with your community and all the rest of it, which is, what is relationship? Life is a movement in relationship. There is no escape from that. You may become a hermit, take vows, put on strange garbs and all the rest of it, thinking yourself extraordinary, exceptional, but you are related. To understand relationship is the most important thing in life; not god, not all these scriptures, but to understand the depth, the meaning, the beauty, the quality, of relationship.

Now, are you being drowned by a lot of words or do you catch instantly the depth, the beauty, the quality of relationship without more explanation, more analysis, see the extraordinary importance of relationship? Do you see the beauty of relationship? Where there is no relationship, there is disorder. So let us look at it together in order to arrive at or listen to something serious. You know most of us have homes, have houses, flats, and we own them and possess them. It is our home. We never realize that we are also guests in that house. Do you understand the meaning of that? You can be a guest in a house, in your own house. Do you understand what it means? That means one must be a teacher as well as a disciple. There is no teacher outside of you. You are the teacher and also you are the disciple who is learning from the teacher, not from the teacher as a guru. But you are learning and teaching. You are the owner of your house and also you are the guest of your house. That means you look after the house, you care for the house, you care for whoever is in the house because you are a guest. The speaker has travelled all over the world for the last sixty years, and wherever he is, he is a guest. That means he is always adjusting himself like a river with great volume of water behind it, and every boulder, every rock, it goes round it. The guest is like that. Let us get back.

Relationship is one of the most important things in life. Why have we made it such a confusion and such misery? What is relationship? The word implies being in contact, not only physical contact, not sexual contact - that you all know - but to be in contact mentally, emotionally, inwardly, with another so that there is no division in that contact. That is relationship. But we have not got that contact. You are ambitious and your wife also is ambitious. You want this and she wants something else. She may be right and you may be wrong. She wants to live in a marvellous house and you say `Please, for god's sake; she wants to be popular and you don't care. You are a scholar, a professor in your own little groove, and she has also her own little groove. So you are never in contact with each other except sexually. This is a fact. And you call that relationship. You have an image about her or she has an image about you. Where does love come into all this? Do you understand my question? When one says to one's wife, I love you, what does it mean? I don't know whether you say it at all. I doubt it. But if you do say it, what does it mean to love another? Relationship means to love another. What does that word mean? I love this or I love that, I love god, I love my guru. What does that love mean? Is it based on reward and punishment? Look at it sirs, because we are always caught between the two - reward and punishment. I follow the guru because he is going to promise me heaven, give me comfort. We are caught in this. Is relationship a reward and punishment process? Is love a movement of that? Think it out.

To meet your wife or your husband, your children, your neighbour, at the same time, at the same level, with the same intensity, that is love. Do you understand this? To meet somebody, you must meet him at the same time, at the same level, with the same intensity. Then that is relationship, but if you are ambitious, you follow the path, becoming noble, ignoble and all the rest of it, and she also follows another path. Naturally you may be married, you may have children and all the rest of it, but you never meet. That breeds a sense of desperate loneliness. Don't you know all this? I have no relationship with anyone - with my wife, with my boss, with my foreman - I have no relationship at all with anybody, because I am self-centred. So that self-centredness and the lack of relationship brings about great loneliness. Discovering that loneliness, we then make out of that loneliness a problem - what am I to do when I am lonely? Your brain is ready to solve the problem. But you never rest with the loneliness, you never enquire the cause of it.

Where there is love, there is no loneliness. Where there is love in your heart, there is no problem. Having stated that, don't make it into a problem. Look at the fact. The fact is that we are not sensitive, that we don't have the depth of beauty. The fact is that we don't love; we don't look at it, try to remain with it, to see `that is so', not try to rationalize it. It is so, that I don't love my wife; you know what it means to say that to yourself. You should cry. I want to cry for you all. Sirs, it is like two parallel lines never meeting and therefore increasing conflict day after day till you die. See the fact that there is no love in your heart, to have the mind in your heart. We think love can be achieved, cultivated. Love is not something to cultivate. Either there is or there is not. If there is not, look at it, hold it, realize what you are without love in your heart; it then becomes a machine - insensitive, vulgar, coarse, only concerned with sex and pleasure. Sirs, please, I am not harassing you, I am not scolding you. I am just pointing out what is happening. Your knowledge, your books, have destroyed you because love is not found in the books. It does not lie with knowledge. Knowledge and love don't go together. Then you say: `I know my wife', but that is your knowledge which is your image about her. That knowledge is put together by thought, and thought is not love. So, having stated all this, do you have love in your heart or is it something romantic, nonsensical, impractical, valueless? It does not give you any money; that is so. Having heard all this, is there a comprehension of the depth of that word so that your mind is in the heart? Then you have right relationship. When you have right relationship, which means love, you can never go wrong.

Mind Without Measure

Bombay

Mind Without Measure Talks in Bombay 2nd Public Talk 23rd January, 1983 'The Good Mind'

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