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Saanen 7th Public Talk 27th July 1975.

We have been talking over together the many issues of our daily life. We have talked about education - perhaps not completely - we have talked about the world as it is with all the misery, confusion, suffering, dictatorship and a lack of freedom, and we also talked about fear - whether it is at all possible to eradicate it totally, not only the conscious but the deeper recesses of one's own mind, and we talked about thought, pursuing pleasure, and the things that thought has created, both outwardly and inwardly. Both the outward and the inward structure of thought is the world of reality in which we live. And we also talked about, considerably at length, I think, about death and the meaning of love - apart from the thing we call love which is the pursuit of pleasure and the fulfilment of desire. We talked about this whole process as a unitary movement, not to be fragmented - and thought invariably fragments all our existence. We talked about all this. We also asked, why thought is fragmentary, why all its structure in the technological world as well as in the psychological area, why thought must be fragmented, inevitably. And we said it comes about when thought has created a centre and that centre separates itself from thought and therefore thought becomes fragmentary.

We have talked about all this and we would like, if we may, this morning to talk about the quality of energy which comes about through meditation, and the quality of energy which is totally different from the energy of meditation and the energy which thought has created. This is what we are going to talk about this morning, as this is the last talk and we are going to have discussions or dialogues on Wednesday morning for the next four or five days.

There are two kinds of energies. I think they are separate. One is the energy of conflict, of division, of all the movement of thought. Thought has built outwardly a tremendous structure, technologically, socially, morally. That thought in its movement, which is time, has gathered together momentum, a tremendous vitality of force. And that energy is totally different from the energy which comes about through the understanding of the right area of thought and moving away from that area, which is the movement of meditation.

We know very well and fairly clearly after these days of talking over together and also by observing what is going on in the world: the division, the wars, the utter lack of consideration, callousness, brutality, violence and immense suffering brought about by this division, ideologically as well as psychologically. That energy has built the world of reality. I think this is fairly clear when one observes it, not only outwardly but also when one is aware of what is going on inwardly.

Now we are asking: as that energy has not solved any of our problems psychologically, and unless one solves this psychological problem of correct living - correct living implies accurate living, not a living according to a pattern or according to an ideal or to some gathered experience as knowledge, but that energy which thought has brought about has not solved human relationship. Now is there another kind of energy. We are inquiring together. We are not laying down, we are not the authority, we are just together, you and the speaker are investigating into a question which is: is there another kind of energy which is not the energy of thought in its movement as time, is there another kind of energy which will solve the problem of relationship, the problem of death, the whole human existence with all its complex problems? Because our existence is not very simple, it is getting more and more complicated, more and more complex. And we want a single answer to all this complexity: 'Tell us what to do and we will do it'. Or is there a way of living which is not the mere movement of thought with all its conflict? Is there a way of living in which there is no conflict, in which there is a unitary movement of mankind? And is there an energy which is not time-binding and which may uncover something that is really sacred? This is what we are going to enquire into together. The speaker is not talking to himself. We are sharing together this problem, knowing that thought, because it is fragmentary, is not the factor of the unification of mankind. Politically that is essential and no dictatorship, no Socialist or Communist government is ever going to produce this unity. Otherwise we will be destroying each other, which is what is going on.

So we are going to enquire into the origin of an energy which is not the movement of time. I do not know if we can do this together with such a large audience, because this requires a great deal of attention, a great deal of care, and no possibility of illusion, no possibility of deluding oneself that one has this peculiar energy. So one has to understand first that there must be no kind of self-hypnosis, no illusion, no deception, no hysteria. So we have to find out what is the cause of illusion. Right? If we are to enquire into this question, whether there is an energy which is not that of thought, one must be absolutely clear that one does not create illusion. The word illusion means sensuous perception of objective things, involving belief. So a mind that is caught in belief must inevitably bring to itself illusion. And there must be illusion as long as there is a desire - desire being something to which we cling to, which we long for, which we subjectively run after. All these factors produce illusion.

So if we are to enquire together into the question one must be free of having no end, no goal, no belief and therefore no illusion. Can you do this? Because we are going to go into something very, very complex and unless one's mind is very clear on this point that illusion, deception, imagination, a desire for some kind of energy, if there is any of that wave, or movement in one's enquiry, then you are going to end up in an asylum - which most people are doing already. This is very, very serious, it is not a thing that you play with.

So we are going to enquire with a mind that is not going to be caught in any form of deception. Deception arises only when there is a desire to achieve something, or to realize something, or to come upon something. Is this clear? So is there a different kind of energy? And to find that out accurately we must have naturally put order in our daily life. Because if there is no order in our daily life, enquiry into that is merely an escape, like taking a drug, drink, anything, it is just an escape and that escape becomes actual and illusory. Right? We mean by order in the world of reality, which is order in the world of relationship between you and another, between man and woman and so on - that relationship is society. Please, listen to all this. It is your life. And if there is no order in that life, in the field of reality in which we live, you cannot possibly - do what you will - come upon that energy which is not the product of thought.

We mean by order, a movement of total comprehension of the activity of thought which we have discussed perhaps ad nauseam for the last seven talks. To perceive totally as a whole movement of thought which has brought about in reality utter confusion. Perhaps this is the first time some of you are hearing all this, so I am afraid we can't go over all the things that we have already talked over together. But what we are saying then is that thought has brought about confusion. Thought has brought about division between human beings. And yet thought wants unity. Please follow this. And so it has created a centre, a centre that will hold things together, not only a centre in oneself but a centre in governments. You follow? After all dictatorship is a form of centre, trying to hold a group of people. Religions have made that centre, hoping to hold man together - Catholicism, Hinduism and so on, and so on, and so on. Thought has created a centre and that centre has become independent of thought and that centre exists hoping to create, bring about a complete unity of mankind. You are following this? You watch this in your own relationship. In the family there is a centre, the centre is the family and trying to hold that family together.

And thought in the field of reality, wanting unity, security, stability has brought about instability, insecurity. There is no cohesive movement, no co-operation. And when we are talking about order, we mean unity in the field of reality. Is this clear? So unless that sense of harmonious existence happens in the world of reality, you cannot possibly enquire into the other. Then your enquiry will be distorted because it is an escape, your enquiry then will pursue illusory imitations which then you will accept as reality. Right?

So we are going to see whether one's mind, whether one's life, daily life is accurate, which means care, which means attention, which means diligent application not negligence. There is a difference between diligence and negligence. Diligence means care, accuracy, mean what you say and live a life that is completely correct, orderly, with care. Contrary to that is negligence. So having laid the foundation of order in reality, then we can proceed to enquire into the question whether there is or there is not an energy which is not the movement of reality, which does not mean illusory. Right? That means there must be freedom to enquire, no attachment to a belief, to a person, to an idea, to a country, to a leader, because if you are attached, held to your opinion, to your judgement, to your conclusion, to your leader, to your guru, to your priest - all that - that very attachment denies freedom of enquiry. These are obvious facts. As a scientist: if he is to enquire very deeply, he cannot be bothered with the country, with the nation, with the border - he is completely absorbed in what he is doing.

So then the mind now is capable of enquiring. I hope your mind is capable. Capable means, having an instrument that can be actively, swiftly able to perceive, to see without distortion. And that distortion will take place as long as there is the observer. The observer is the past, the conclusions, his memories, his desires, his will. As long as there is that observer, whatever he perceives must be distorted. If I am a Hindu or a Catholic, or a Communist or whatever it is, or addicted to beliefs then perception, that is, seeing, becomes, clouded, distorted, not accurate.

What we have been talking about for the last six gatherings here is part of meditation. Meditation is not something separate from the understanding and the action in the world of reality. That is part of meditation. The meaning of that word meditation means to ponder over, to think about, to go into. That is what we have done, which is - we are saying - part of meditation. But unfortunately for most people meditation is something apart from life, apart from daily existence. We think by meditating we will achieve an experience which will alter our structure of thought and from there act in the world of reality. You understand? That is, I hope by meditating I hope to have a certain experience or understanding or realization which will then function in the world of reality and therefore bring order there. This is what most people are doing right through the world, unfortunately introduced by the gurus from India. See the fallacy of this. "First seek god, or whatever it is and then everything will be all right". But you have never enquired who is the seeker. The seeker is the observer, is the thing put together by thought.

So meditation is the understanding of order and accuracy in the world of reality. That's part of meditation. Meditation also means much more; not just bringing order in reality. Anybody can do that, any sane, rational, healthy human being can do that without meditating. But through meditation it gives beauty to the order in daily life. Are you following all this? Are you following somewhat?

So what is meditation? A mind that is free from all illusion, that is not attached to belief, to persons, to ideas, to conclusions. Complete freedom is absolutely necessary to proceed further.

What place has will in meditation? You understand my question? What place has will in trying to meditate - or in meditation. What is will? It is the action of desire for something. I desire to be rich - god forbid! - and I work for it. I exercise my will, my desire to achieve all the things that money will give. I work for it. That is, will is a movement of desire as thought. Will is thought. Will is desire. Desire is thought. They are not separate. Desire, the action of will, the movement of thought are one. And in meditation if there is the action of will that will is a form of resistance, and therefore that will is still the movement of thought as time and division. I wonder if you get this. Don't be bored. Do not yawn yet, give me another ten minutes or half an hour, before you yawn. You understand my statement? We are asking, what place has will in meditation? We say: there is no place for will, for will is desire. Desire means to achieve something or to cling to something, or demand enlightenment, beauty, love, all the rest of it.

And in that movement of meditation there are a whole complexity of activities. First of all let us look into the word 'Yoga'. Right? You know something about it, don't you? Yoga in Sanskrit means 'join', the root meaning of it. And there are different kinds of Yoga - the highest Yoga being Raja Yoga - 'King of Yogas' in which there is only the activity of the mind, the activity of living a right kind of life, accurate life. It has nothing whatever to do with exercises, postures, breathing and all that business. There are different kinds of Yogas and they have also said: "What the speaker is saying is another form of Yoga". You can wipe out all that rubbish and start again.

Then through meditation - because all this implies a highly sensitive mind, a highly sensitive body, therefore no drugs, no drinks, no tobacco - you follow - anything that makes the mind dull, which is repetition. Any practice will inevitably make the mind dull. Right? That is why when the gurus come to this country and bring their superstitious, traditional, conventional, conditioned practices of various kinds, they are destroying your brain, they are making your mind dull. And you need a very clear, active, subtle, sensitive mind and you cannot have that if you keep on repeating, repeating, repeating. You understand this, naturally. Then your mind becomes mechanical, which it is already, and you are making it more mechanical. So, put away, if I may suggest altogether this whole idea of following somebody and accepting their systems. Many gurus have come to see the speaker and they have brought out all their arguments. They say: "What you are saying is the highest truth, but we translate this truth to others, because they can't understand you". You understand the game they play?

So therefore first: no acceptance of authority. Please, do see this. When you don't accept authority there is the activity of freedom, which is intelligence. Then that intelligence will bring about right political activity which is not dependent on party politics, on their leaders, dictatorship and all that business.

So then in meditation because the mind has become astonishingly sensitive, there is all this field of clairvoyance, right? Field of healing, field of investigating into occult things, hidden things. Right? Unfortunately it is becoming the fashion now to talk about the occult, the hidden, the mysterious, all that. When the body is sensitive, the mind is active, accurate, therefore all these things come about. But they are totally irrelevant. They are playthings. Please, the speaker knows something of all this and there is great danger in all that, unless you really want to pursue that like a child with a toy. It has no value.

Now we can proceed to enquire, after clearing the ground accurately, with the question: is there an energy, a something, which is totally different - not the opposite, because the opposite of the energy of thought is still its own opposite, is still the movement of thought. Therefore we are using purposely a word that is totally different. Now we can proceed.

And also there is the whole question, brought over from India, of the energy which they think will come about through awakening the various centres in the body which is called 'Kundalini'. Have you heard all about this rubbish? It isn't rubbish if you know what it is, but as you don't know, you are playing with rubbish. Please forgive me if I talk frankly about all these nonsensical, unreal things, unless you have gone into it. You cannot go into it unless you have brought order in your life. They have brought this word called 'Kundalini' from India. It is now a fashionable thing to pursue. When it becomes common it has lost its reality, its worthwhileness. You understand? When everybody is trying to awaken their beastly little what they call 'Kundalini' it becomes too silly. A truth, when made common, becomes vulgar and therefore no longer truth.

Now we can proceed. No action of will, therefore no action of deception, illusion, no attachment to belief, to dogmas, to rituals, to all the myths that man has put together through thought. Then what takes place to a mind that has done this - not imagined it has done, actually has done? To such a mind there is that quality of silence, a silence that is not between two noises, the silence that is not between two thoughts. Please, watch it in yourself, you will see this. A silence that has not been put together by thought because it desires to be silent. Because there has been order in our daily life, because there has been no conflict as will, there is no division politically, religiously, no practice. Out of all that comes a natural intelligence, natural sensitivity and therefore a mind that is astonishingly quiet. That is, a mind that has put a stop to time - mind has not put it - but it has inevitably come about. You understand what I am saying? Time is movement of thought as measure. Time is thought. And thought as measure is from here to there, psychologically as well as physically. And when there is this movement of time as achievement, as experience, as gaining something, it is still the activity of thought, and therefore it is fragmentary, not whole. From that, when the mind has perceived the totality of thought - that is the totality of the movement of thought, all its varieties, all its movements, all its subtleties hidden and open - when the mind is totally aware of all that, then time, to such a mind, comes to an end, therefore there is complete quietness. Right?

Perception can only take place in silence. You follow this? Please. Are we sharing this together? Or am I pursuing my own investigation? You understand? If you want to hear what the speaker is saying, you have to listen, you have to pay attention. If you want to listen, if you don't want to, that is quite a different matter. But if you want to listen you have to pay attention. That means care. That means you have to listen, listen without any prejudice, without conclusion, comparing what you hear with what you already know. All those inhibit, prevent listening. So, when you want to listen, you must be completely silent, naturally. When you want to see the mountains, the flowing of the water in the river, there must be total observation, not the observer observing. Right? So there is this silence.

And what is the unifying character, what is the unifying movement, so that it brings about no division between man and man? Because that is a tremendously important question. You understand? When the world is divided - nation against nation, people against people, ideas against ideas - democracy - so-called democracy against autocracy and so on. When there is this tremendous division taking place in mankind, in human beings outwardly as well as inwardly, what is the unifying factor? Is there is no unifying factor we are going to destroy ourselves - unifying factor being co-operation. You understand all this? So what is that unifying factor in meditation? Because that is one of the most urgent absolute necessities. Politics and politicians are not going to bring this unity, however much they may talk about it. It has taken them thousands of years just to meet each other at Bonn or Moscow or in Washington or some other hideous place - thousands of years. Think of such a mentality that is going to bring unity to mankind.

What is that factor? You understand? We are talking about a totally different kind of energy which is not the movement of thought with its own energy. And will that energy which is not the energy of thought bring about this unity? You understand? Are you interested in this? It is your problem, isn't it? Unity between you and your wife, unity between you and another. You see we have to bring about this unity, thought sees the necessity of this unity and therefore has created a centre. Like the sun is the centre of this universe, holding all things in that light, so this centre created by thought hopes to bring mankind together. Great warriors try to do this, great conquerors. They did it through bloodshed. Religions have tried to do it, and those religions who have tried to do it brought about more division with their cruelty, with their wars, with their torture. Science has enquired into this, and because science is knowledge, the accumulation of knowledge, and the movement of knowledge, which is thought being fragmentary cannot unify. You understand all this?

So is there any energy which will bring about this unity? This unification of mankind? And we were saying: in meditation this energy comes about, because in that meditation there is no centre. The centre is created by thought. But something else totally different takes place - which is compassion. That is the unifying factor of mankind: to be, not that you will become compassionate which is again another deception, but be compassionate. That can only take place when there is no centre, the centre being that which has been created by thought, thought which hoped by creating a centre it could bring about unity - like a federal government, like a dictatorship, like autocracy. All those are centres hoping to create unity. All those have failed and they will inevitably fail. And there is only one factor and that is the sense of great compassion.

And that compassion comes, when we understand the full width and depth of suffering. That is why we talked a great deal about suffering - suffering not only of a human being, the collective suffering of mankind. You understand, sirs? Don't understand it verbally or intellectually, but somewhere else, in your heart feel the thing. And as you are the world and the world is you, if there is this birth of compassion then you will inevitably bring about unity, you can't help it.

Let us move further. That is: does this energy reveal that which is sacred? Mankind has always sought something sacred, knowing that nothing in this world is sacred - this world in which there is all the movement of agony, suffering, lack of love, despair, anxiety, competition, ambition, ruthlessness - anything, we are saying now, anything that thought has created is not sacred, obviously. The things that have been put in the churches, in the temples, in the mosques is not sacred, but yet we worship it. We worship the word, the symbol, created by thought and we pray to that. So we project that which is sacred according to our conditioning. If I was born in India - tradition and all the rest of it - I project that sacredness in a statue or something, a symbol, in the temple. And the Communist deny all that, but they have their own sacredness which is the State. For that they are willing to sacrifice, kill and all the rest of it. So anything that thought has put together is not sacred - your Christ, your Jesus, your saviours, the Hindu Gods - nothing!

So in meditation, because the mind is absolutely quiet and therefore compassionate, is there something sacred? If you do not find it, life has no meaning. You understand? Has your life any meaning? Except pleasure, money and power? That has very little meaning. Your daily existence has very little meaning. Right? And you try to find a meaning by joining communes, this or that, doing something - which is still the movement of thought. So when you see totally, when you perceive totally all the movement of thought, and whatever thought creates is nothing sacred.

So we are going to find out when the mind is completely quiet and therefore has that quality of great compassion, then is there anything that is sacred? That is, not supernatural? When the mind does not project anything, then the mind is still. You understand? If it does not project according to his conditioning, that which is called sacred, then the mind is still. Now in this stillness is there anything sacred? Or is there anything sacred, holy out of this silence?

You know there is mystery. All religions have said: there is a mystery, you cannot go beyond a certain point - logically, sanely. That is why they have created temples that are very, very dark. The Cathedrals have coloured windows and all the rest of it, but it is very dark, quiet, hoping thereby to create through thought a sense of great mystery or great myth.

When you understand this movement of thought as a whole, you have no myth, you have no mystery, no enquiry through reality a mystery. So when you have put away all that, then is there a mystery which thought cannot touch? You understand? That which is mysterious, not in the sense of the mystery that thought has created, that great sense of mystery which scientists are also enquiring into that mystery, that mysterious thing is sacred. It has no symbol, no word. You cannot experience it, because if you experience there is still the experiencer who is the centre, who is the 'me' who will experience, therefore still division. That division is still the movement of thought. So the experience of 'it' is not possible, but it is there when the mind has gone through this whole business of existence with clarity, in which there is no fear and the understanding of that enormous thing called death and suffering. And out of that comes great compassion.

And then when the mind is totally still in this compassion - your mind cannot be still without compassion, do understand this - then out of that comes something mysterious which is the most sacred.

Truth and Actuality

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Saanen 7th Public Talk 27th July 1975.

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